I bet it was an interesting podcast. To be clear, Ramsey is likely talking about buying an investment property rather than consumer debt for a car. While debt does increase risk, if used wisely it can boost returns without undue risk. Ramsey also recommends using a 15-year mortgage, which is WAY riskier than a 30-year mortgage. So he is not risk averse, just looking for ways to justify his “one shoe fits all” philosophy on debt. I would rather take a modest loan than be stuck in a 15-year mortgage any day. Far less risk and far greater reward.